Toadtorrent Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 *EDITED to update progress of replacement and receipt of final watch Hi all, There have been many great guides done on the Rolex Submariner Noob/Nymph/Beginmariners comparing them to gen subs. In my process of doing research on this watch however, I came up with a number of questions about the differences between versions of one of the most popular rep watches ever made that I thought would be well served by a pictorial comparison to provide some answers. Be patient with my post...as this is my first REAL topic, and my first time taking watch pics. There was dust on the lens that I didn't feel like cleaning off and shows up with the macro stuff...oops. I also stupidly, forgot to take pics of the overall watch...oh well...we all know what subs look like right? What's important are the small details. I sadly stole some pictures from some of the better known shooters and posters on this site to provide the comparison with the watch I have in question, and I will give credit and link to the source articles for reference. ================================ TOAD's LIST OF TOP SUBMARINER QUESTIONS ================================ Q: Who has the best sub? A: Rolex Q: Who has the best replica sub? A: It depends on what your criteria are for best. The most accurate rep would probably be a highly modded franken-MBW...but at a cost approaching a used gen, this might not be considered the best value. The best rep out of the box is generally considered TTK's Noobmariner. Q: Is there a difference between the Noobmariner, Nymphmariner, and Beginmariner? A: Yes. The Noob and Beginmariner from my experience CAN be very similar, but given drop-shipping, and poor quality control, you can order one thing, and get a really bad version. Q: Are the differences big? A: You decide...ONTO THE GOOD STUFF!! ========================= THE STORY ========================= I did my research, and decided on a Josh Beginmariner. Although this wasn't the legendary TTK Noob, the pictures looked like it had the same dial, same case and same bracelet, but a different movement. Upon delivery (quick and great service from Josh as always), what arrived was NOTHING like what was pictured on the site. Josh responded quickly to my tale of problems, is taking the watch back and will send me a new one, so minimal harm done, and I would gladly buy from Josh again. These are the risks with drop shipping that I chose to take in exchange for great email service, and consistently super fast shipping. EDIT: After expensive return shipping to China ($54CDN in order to get tracking...all cheaper options didn't have tracking or would take 2 months), Josh quickly shipped a replacement Beginmariner (this time via Registered Airmail instead of EMS courier). No less than 1 day after he gave me a tracking number, he sent me ANOTHER email saying the replacement package that JUST went out, again had the wrong watch in it and that he just shipped another package, this time checked, with the supposedly correct watch. Although delays, at least there is some progress and some quality control going in now. I'll post updated pics to the comparison shots when the new watch arrives in a couple weeks. Your mileage and priorities may vary. ========================== THE CASE ========================== The gen case reference number is: 16610T The Noob serial number is: F520117 The Beginmariner serial number was SUPPOSED to be: F520117 The proper serial and reference pics were taken from Stephane's awesome review found here: Stephane's Legendary TTK Noob Review As you can see below, what arrived was a serial of F432118, a serial I had never heard of before for a sub, and a case reference of 16710T, which is in fact the case for a GMT Master II. Caseback Showing Model Sticker and Hologram: Case Serials: Case Reference: ========================== CROWN GUARDS ========================== Having the wrong case, leads to have the wrong crown guards. The Noob CG pic is from By-Tor's famous review here: By-Tor's Noob Review As you can see below, the Good Noob guards are pointier and less wide at the base: As well, you will note that the bad Begin's CG's are not symmetrical, with the right side being fatter than the left: =========================== REHAUT and DATE MAG =========================== Having the wrong case, also leads to wrong rehaut shape...the infamous conical rehaut (aka Wok). The Good Noob pic is from Stephane again. If you note, the rehaut which is the metal ring between the crystal and the dial slopes more towards the dial like the sides of a wok or cone. The depth to me looks fine. However, what is also of note in this picture is that the date magnification is pretty good, and the datewheel font is a little more bold but not too bad. ============================ BEZEL and BEZEL INSERT ============================ The bezel height between the 2 looks pretty good, but the teeth on the Good Noob are cut deeper with sharper points. The pic of the Good Noob is taken from BKLM1234's review of the Noob on Repgeek.com (you might have to register to view the post): BKLM1234 Review of Noob on Repgeek ============================ PEARL ============================ Rep pearls vary so much from what I've seen, and the Noob/Begin/Nymph vary so much in quality, most people say to upgrade the pearl regardless of which rep you get. BKLM1234 wrote an awesome post on just the pearl (his pictures are below for the gen pearl): BKLM1234's Pearl Post on Repgeek.com A summary of BKLM1234's post shows that the gen pearl is actually comprised of a dome of lume covered in a levelling layer of clear stuff...so it looks flat from a near profile view like below: ...but viewed from the top, are domed. If you note, the Bad Begin's lume is actually off centre (BKLM1234's pic on the left): ========================================= DIAL - SWISS MADE TICS AND CROOKED ETCHED CORONET ========================================= Moving onto the dial...everything gets tied together. The case is wrong, which means the rehaut is wrong, which means the dial is different as it is a narrower diameter due to the conical shape rehaut. How different is the dial? You will notice that the better Noob has 3 ticks under the words "Swiss Made", while the Bad Begin has not 3, not 4, but 5...YUP...5 (I labelled the pic wrong as 4...sorry bad counting). I apologize for the super zoom in on By-Tor's pic on the left...the things I do for semi-equivalent size comparison. You will also note that the etched coronet at 6-o-clock is also crooked, and closer to something like 6:05... ================= DIAL - CORONET SHAPE ================= More on the dial. If you look at the coronet shape, you will notice the Good Noob has the proper rounded arc of the coronet points, versus the more triangular arrangement of the points on the Bad Begin. As well, the bottom of the coronet is flatter and less round on the Good Noob than the more circular base compared with the Bad Begin. Again, I apologize for the bad zoom-in on By-Tor's pic on the left. ================= DIAL - m AND M's ================= No surprise, that if you get the wrong dial, everything on the dial is going to be wrong. In this case, the alignment of the small "m" from the 300m depth indication does not align properly with the capital "M" on CHRONOMETER. By-TOR's super zoomed-in pic again on the left... =================== CORONET INCONSISTENCY =================== Looking at the bracelet clasp, the coronet on the clasp looks correct to me, versus the coronet on the dial. =================== BRACELET =================== The bracelet on this watch seems different from the one I received compared with the Good Noob, as the number on the Solid End Links (SEL) are different. Both bracelets have the hollow middle links (sorry no picture). The SEL pic of the Good Noob is from Stephane again... ============================== CONCLUSION - UPDATED WITH FINAL WATCH ============================== Overall, once you get the core item of the case being wrong, everything else seems to go wrong thereafter. The bottom line is...I got a dud. What was pictured on the site should have been close...really close to the Legendary TTK sub. Whatever happened with the drop-shipped order led to what looked to me like sloppy leftovers. Well, Josh came through. The proper watch finally arrived. Aside from expensive return shipping to China (in order to get a tracking number), the transaction was smooth. The 3rd watch sent by Josh was finally the one (threes a charm thye say). Proper case serial, proper rehaut, proper dial, centred etched crown, etc...all is as it should be. The only critique I have of the watch is that the movement lacks the hack signal, and the rotor spin is quite loud. Otherwise, the watch looks proper. I will post updated pics soon. Hope you found this pictorial comparison useful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest TTK Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 I did...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FasTTaP Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 great post! thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Stand by and wait for this thread to be repeated in a month or two's time..... I can feel it already.....the Ultimate SeaDweller, the Super Sea-Dweller, the Perfect SeaDweller, and so on ad (nauseum) infinitum. p.s. kudos Toad, nice writeup, sure others will find it useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abat Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Thanks a lot for this, I ordered a beginmariner from Josh the other day, you've made it really easy for me to check against the one in the pics I ordered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 I quote "differences between TTK and a bad Beginmariner" Now this turned our to be only hype but a good review....I am sure there are other differences between TTK and the noobmariner as well and I shall not dare to list them at all in fright of the wrath of that ghreat champion of neandertalstyle luxury (dont forget the neandertal have significant larger brains than most men currently alive myself included) would want to give my a literary kiss..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gran Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 Damn.....he has become all civil and all no fun and out to play today today neil?,,,, I got a go play some squash..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docblackrock Posted October 25, 2007 Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 I'm not sure you're considered 'fair game' these days Gran, it's almost too easy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 I did...... Hah hah...does that mean I qualify for the Family Price now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 25, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 25, 2007 I quote "differences between TTK and a bad Beginmariner" Now this turned our to be only hype but a good review....I am sure there are other differences between TTK and the noobmariner as well and I shall not dare to list them at all..... Ooooh...you got me...bad editing. I get a free Get of Jail card though because I'm a true Noob. I also forgot to mention that you can shake them both, but only one will complain if you remove a link... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kollektor Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Terrific post. Very interesting. Would anybody know which version Sub model has the serial: D320840? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itreeman Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Nice writeup I have a "good" beginmariner (LV) that I can post pics of. If anyone wants me to, let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Nice writeup I have a "good" beginmariner (LV) that I can post pics of. If anyone wants me to, let me know. Thanks...and I would be interested in seeing it. Help restore the faith in what's possible! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Terrific post. Very interesting. Would anybody know which version Sub model has the serial: D320840? Thanks. I'm glad people are finding it useful. It was an interesting exercise to write. D320840 is what Josh has as the RLSS10001 which is different than the Begin which is his RLSS10009. He sticks an ETA movement in it, but the case isn't as good as the proper Beginmariner. He will stick an ETA movement into the Beginmariner case...you just order the RLSS10001 and in the comments request the RLS10009 case set. Andrew has the F520117 on his ETA sub as well as his cheap Asian 21J version. I'm not sure who else is using what. Not every collector shows the case serial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terje Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 I did...... Ha ha ha..I bet you did! ....and so did I actually (See my signature) Thanks for the detailed write up toad. VERY helpful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kollektor Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Thanks. I'm glad people are finding it useful. It was an interesting exercise to write. D320840 is what Josh has as the RLSS10001 which is different than the Begin which is his RLSS10009. He sticks an ETA movement in it, but the case isn't as good as the proper Beginmariner. He will stick an ETA movement into the Beginmariner case...you just order the RLSS10001 and in the comments request the RLS10009 case set. Andrew has the F520117 on his ETA sub as well as his cheap Asian 21J version. I'm not sure who else is using what. Not every collector shows the case serial. Hat's off to you. Always wondered where this one originally came from. I'm impressed with your knowledge! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Very very interresting post indeed. At the end of the day, there are very very few "nice sub reps".... Thank you so much for your time and efforts. Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Ha ha ha..I bet you did! ....and so did I actually (See my signature) Thanks for the detailed write up toad. VERY helpful! Indeed. Glad you liked the post. It was a bit nerve-racking writing it up, given it was my first "real" post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Very very interresting post indeed. At the end of the day, there are very very few "nice sub reps".... Thank you so much for your time and efforts. Stephane, Thanks for your kind words. It's folks like you who contribute so much to the forums that acted as inspiration for me wanting to put something back. I'm not a huge collector of watches like Lady V or yourself, but I'm a total information-[censored]. Thanks for letting me borrow your pics and for your great write-up which everyone can find CLICKING HERE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 My pleasure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 My pleasure AND...hey...I just got my first [censored] post...doubly exciting!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toadtorrent Posted October 26, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 And thanks to By-Tor, Stephane, and BKLM1234 for letting me use their pics!! They were all very generous and supportive of the cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dizzy Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 it looks like you're really done your research and layed it out really well. nice closeup comparisons of the two watches. I hope people now see the difference between the gen Noobmariner and the noobmariner replicas LOL TTK's Noobmariner is most accurate submariner rep 'out of the box'. Plus its the perfect base to build a franken.. gen crown and tube and a gen insert and your done! The bracelet is almost perfect too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkymk Posted October 26, 2007 Report Share Posted October 26, 2007 Toad - and you call yourself a noob???? This was an awesome post. I'm pulling out my old Sub rep right now to compare against what you wrote...no doubt I'll leave disappointed that I don't have something as good as the noobmariner. Thanks again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terje Posted October 27, 2007 Report Share Posted October 27, 2007 it looks like you're really done your research and layed it out really well. nice closeup comparisons of the two watches. I hope people now see the difference between the gen Noobmariner and the noobmariner replicas LOL TTK's Noobmariner is most accurate submariner rep 'out of the box'. Plus its the perfect base to build a franken.. gen crown and tube and a gen insert and your done! The bracelet is almost perfect too. I`m not totally familiar with the terminology yet. Could someone explain to me, sloooowly, what tube and insert are? I think I can figure out what the crown is. Terje, the Noob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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