FxrAndy Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Ok to start off a little history. The IWC Ingenieur It's been 53 years since IWC first introduced the Ingenieur and IWC's first automatic, antimagnetic watch. The Ingenieur is not about complications like multiple hands, subdials or moonphases. Rather, the simple function of accurately telling time (and on some models the date). The Ingenieur's genesis dates from 1944 when IWC hired a new technical director, Albert Pellaton. He was responsible for the creation of IWC's first automatic watch, the calibre 81 (subseconds at 6) and the calibre 85 (central seconds, flat overcoil) in 1950. The next generation, the calibre 852 (central seconds, Breguet overcoil) was the first automatic movement encased under a soft-iron core with the Ingenieur name. The Ingenieur was viewed by IWC as the automatic and civilian version of the famous Mark XI, a hand-wound antimagnetic classic whose fame and following grew as a modern pilot's watch. The Ingenieur is not a spectacular or sexy watch nor was its introduction in 1955 widely anticipated. Like the Mark XI, the Ingenieur is about function and the name translates literally to "engineer." However, because it was produced for the civilian market, the Ingenieur was offered in a variety of relatively elegant dial styles, as well as in 18kt and mixed (steel and gold) cases. Today the timeless design of the watch puts it in the "classic" category and is testimony that its appeal has outlasted its long reign as the flagship of the IWC line. Please click here for the 1955 brochure The famous Ingenieur logo of the arrow passing through the name is reminiscent of the Swiss thunderbolt icon that warns of an electrical current's presence. In this case, the thunderbolt was chosen to represent the Ingenieur's anti-magnetic properties, i.e. the ability of its special soft iron shield construction to protect the watch against magnetic fields. The logo makes the watch easy to identify from other IWC automatics of the period and gives the watch its joie de vivre. The Ingy for me starts to take what we now know to be its familier shape in the 70s with the Gelarld Genta designed SL (Steel Line) Genta had just been employed by AP to design the Royal oak and IWC thought it would share some of that sucess so they poached gente to work on the Ingy along with the Polo club and Golf Club. I could keep copy and pasting but if you want to know more about the vintage INGY have a look here. Photographed in my AD 28/03/08, for sale as part of a collection Photographed in my AD 28/03/08 for sale as part of a collection So on to the main part of the review, the differences between a gen and rep Ingy, alot has been said about the rep and the quality and feel that it has, about the Ar on the latest version and how few differences ther are, hmmmmm we thought that it was almost perfect, ok short hands but some gens have those, the date wheel but we can get a lello one to solve that and hey what else can we do. Well here are a couple of bits for starters Lets also look at the dimentions Firstly the rep Across the case from 9 to 3 41.7mm And including the crown 46.3mm Case from 12 to 6 including the lugs 52.2mm bezel 38.4mm crystal 31.7mm depth 13.7mm I shaped link 10.6 mm Middle oblong link 7.6mm weight sized for me 190g Crown width 6.3mm And the gen Across the case from 9 to 3 41.9mm And including the crown 46.2mm Case from 12 to 6 including the lugs 52.1mm bezel 38.4mm crystal 31.7mm depth 14.6mm I shaped link 10.8 mm Middle oblong link 7.6mm weight sized for me 204g Crown width 6.2mm So what are the other differences then, 1. Well there are the hands, the rep hands are shorter then the current gen but when this model first came out it did indeed have shorter hands but the current gen has long ones, is there a solution, well if you can get gen hands and change the sizes as the gen uses the same hand sizes as a 7750 you could fit them, is it worth it? A short hand gen Gen Rep 2. The date font and window, the standard rep date font bears very little resemblance to the gen, install a lello and it looks far better, however the gen still employs a fatter and more mat font, it is only noticable when you have the two side by side so i would not worry about it, the date window on the rep is a little smaller than the gen and doen not have the same sharp chamfer that is also excentated by the deeper set date wheel on the gen, could a 2824 date wheel be emplyed on a 2836 to recess the date a bit? Noticable no not realy with the lello DW. 3. The dial as a whole and its printing is very good, i cant quite put my finger on it but i would say that the wording Ingenieur on the rep is a little larger. Even with a 1x loup it is hard to find fault with the printing. There are however other variations with the rep, such as the thickness of the 12 and 6 on the rep being just a bit fatter then the gen. the dial texture is very good with raised and interlocking I's creating the pattern, the Is below Schaffshausen on the gen end to create the window where as the rep continues a little higher and is not such a sharp line, this follows on all the indents for any of the printing and markers but realy is only noticable under a 10x loupe so lets not worry about it. 4. The lume, Well as usual the rep fails here but dont worry the gen is not that good either, both glow eaqualy well under UV but you see the difference in brightness as soon as you put them together in a dark area, the gen is brighter and lasts longer, the main ommision on the rep is the lack of the figures 60, 15, 30 and 45 being lumed, dont worry as you can hardly see this on the gen unless you have just charged the SL and then look, after a couple of mins you wont see them any way. Under UV light you can clearly see the 60, 15, 30 and 45 glowing with the UV turned off you can compare the brightness, for comparison is my rep railmaster a couple of inches in the back ground (and i think the distance also makes a difference) After a couple of mins you can no longer see the 60, 15 ect The good thing is that there is so much contrast on this dial you need only the slightest moon light to read the time any way! 5. The crown is well made but a little sharp on the edges, it also has a rough finish below the engraving where the gen has a polished finish, maybe with some gentle polishing this will look better but be carefull not to remove the raised detail. 6. The case, The rep has a nice well finshed case with dimetions with in .1 of a mm of the gen, the edges on my rep ar a little smoother now due to polishing and wear. Apart from that they are near as perfect. 7. The case back, here we see the rep with a thiner case back which is quite noticable, also the O on INTERNATIONAL WATCH Co. is small where the gen says INTERNATIONAL WATCH CO. This is set into a polished ring which is slightly larger on the gen, the edge of the gen case back also has a larger 45 degree chamfer. 8. Crystal and AR, The first Ingy reps came with out AR the newer ones come witha good double AR and i can not see any difference what so ever between the rep and the gen, i have managed to scratch the rep ar but i am not going to see how easily the gen scratches in comparrison. but i see no difference what so ever. 9. Bracelet. The rep came with a slightly stiff one that i took apart and cleaned filed and polished so that it felt like the gen, I also took out and turned the ends of the pins to look the same as the gen as described in this post The feel now is perfect as is the look, infact the rep feels nicer as the edges are far silkier after the polishing. The oblong middle links onthe rep are not as pronounced as the gen and also have a shallower angle to the edges. 10. The clasp of the rep has had its problems as noted in this post but so far mine has been fine. The gen has the part that breaks made a what looks like a singe peice where the rep is bonded together giving us the weak point. The gen clasp also closes more securely due to a better and thicker locking mechanism and stronger spring, but only maginaly better. The finish of the clasp on the rep is where i would rather have the rep than gen, it is butifully machine turned and looks fantastic, the gen is simply glass bead blasted and gives you some where to strike matches on, Summary i still find this rep to be excelently made and executed, it feels very much like the gen, it has the same presence and exudes quality and class. With a few hours of TLC on the bracelet it will feel even better. The differencees are in my mind neligable when you consider the difference in price to the quality of the two watches. Even with the two watches a foot from my face on the table now i have to look at the hands to check which one i am picking up to mesure and blind foldes i have to feel for the raised links in the bracelet to find the gen. Is the gen worth its Euros 5900 price tag? well it has a manufature calibre, it will hold its value over time, so yes i think so, Also the price goes up by 10-15% on the 1st April 2008, I was lucky I cashed in my savings and got it before the price rise and with a couple of things i am entitled to in Germany and a bit of haggling i got a good 20%+ off the list price. Is the rep worth the price, most definatly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It is well made and a very nice time peice even with out the name on the dial i would wear it. Thank you for reading and my oppologies for the photos, never my strong point. but i leave you with some more eye candy Also see Seadweller4000 rep gen comparisson Seadweller4000 guide to IWC Reps Pix's fantastic photo guide and tribute to the INGY Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoobs1971 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Excelent writeup, Andy Shocking how close reps can be.... Wear it well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seadweller4000 Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Magnificent. This deserves a big hand. Will link it to the guide, of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capice Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 compliments for your review Andy, Ingenieur added to my wishlist.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warbody Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 As capice said : Ingenieur added to my wishlist thanks to this review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazarini Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Great writeup and congratulations are in order ! Wear it well hope to see it in flesh soon Regards Laz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest asad Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Thanks, I had held a GEN Ingy and then got the rep, and in honesty I could not tell much of a difference. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teddy boy Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Outstanding review Andy. I own the white dial which I didn't realize was a phantom until after I owned it. I like the watch very much and given that my gen Omega SMP has a black dial and gen Breitling Super Ocean a blue one, the white dial is a nice change of pace. In any event, your description of the rep quality very much fits my experience with the white dial rep. I'm going to a party tonight and your review inspires me to wear the ingy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Excellent side by side, thx for sharing. Strange coincidence, just today I have "worked" on the Ingie (changed straps) and was thinking of improving it with a DW... I know the bracelet is a nice piece of work. I have however gone for the nylon strap, it just gives it a very different look. "Thinner" I would say. In any case, an affordable "super rep" ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted March 29, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 I think even after all the differences i have found i think the title "Super rep " is still a good lable for this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niclas Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Thanks! This is a great review and a great comparison I really like the Ingenieur. It is one of the few reps that really feel like a gen when you wear it. You might think that this watch is discreet and understated but among my Panerai and other IWCs the Ingenieur actually gets a large part of the attention. I guess it looks expensive. If you don't have an Ingenieur get one. Also get the nylon strap for a different look and as a backup if the bracelet breake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWG Technical Posted March 29, 2008 Report Share Posted March 29, 2008 Wonderful review and great history and details. Thanks so much for putting the time and effort into making up this great post. Great Job! RG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellomen Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Most excellent review Andy!!! Perfect write-up about this beauty and most excellent pictures to support the story A remarkable good review!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jot9011 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Excellent review Andy!!! Thanks! You made me miss mine. Can't wait to get it back from its Chief/Vac overhaul. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ta8088 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Fantastic review Andy! Amazing how close the rep is to the gen with just a few mods. I need to get a DW and get the AR done on mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MADRED7 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Thank you Andy....you made my day! That was a good read and some interesting points....the pics are stunning and I am really looking forward to recieve my Ingy in the next few days. BTW: Have you tested the watch for waterproofnes??? I am planning to take the Ingy on holidays with swimming, sun and sweating....would you mind??? Thx again mate and best wishes, Theo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I have showered in the ingy with out problems but not tested it any further than that, all i can add is that as long as all the seals are greased and fitted well there should be no reason for it not to be water tight, th gen is only tested to 120m so even at that it is only surface swimming, snorkeling recomended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Wonderfull review Andy. Thanks so much for your time and efforts. I sold mine to LordRasta and regret it so much that I bought one again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRasta Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I sold mine to LordRasta and regret it so much that I bought one again Great review, but now I feel sad.... She has a good home Stephane!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Great review, but now I feel sad.... She has a good home Stephane!!!! I am sure, My Lord, I am sure Funniest is I have to get a Lello DW now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRasta Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I am sure, My Lord, I am sure Funniest is I have to get a Lello DW now Yup then she will be complete. The Ingy was the last piece I needed for my Gerald Genta collection and you came through my friend. Glad to hear you got another one. Wear it well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FxrAndy Posted March 31, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 I am sure, My Lord, I am sure Funniest is I have to get a Lello DW now the Lello DW is good but could do with the font being not so glossy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dluddy Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 Absolutely superb review Andy. Thanks for sharing your knowledge and passion for the Ingie with the community Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ar0401 Posted March 31, 2008 Report Share Posted March 31, 2008 This review should be pinned. It is one of the best in the forum history. Thanks a lot for sharing it with us! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owdeguy Posted April 10, 2008 Report Share Posted April 10, 2008 Great post Andy, thanks for share such good details! BTW, how's my crown compare? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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