bamcky2k Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 to franken or not to franken? what a question...is it worth the extra cash to buy and install genuine parts on the 45mm PO? or should you just wear and be happy as it comes-and buy yourself something else with the vast amount of cash you'll be saving? lets have a look.... now from the start of my watch obsession i've been drawn to omega as a brand, for the designs, the history, the bond connection and everything else thats good and cool about them-they just tick every box in regards to what i like from watches, and the planet ocean quickly became one of my top 5 favourite watches. the 45mm planet ocean rep is widely regarded as one of the best out of the box, it is indeed good, very good...but there are better straight from the go-the breitling superocean, omega smp chrono, tag aquaracer 500m etc are all closer to gen to start with, yet the planet ocean is so much more popular despite having more flaws... as pretty much everyone now knows, the upo (ultimate planet ocean) is great for accepting genuine parts-pretty much everything fits except for the bezel-but is it worth throwing money at the watch to rectify the flaws-especially as some of them are so small you would never notice? the rep dials date window and too small numbers/poor lume can be sorted by adding a genuine dial, great stuff i hear you cry! then you see the price of them new...£240 for the orange number version and £195 for the white number version (why the price difference? perhaps orange paint costs more...who knows??) thats the price of another great rep of your choice! especially as in use the date window isnt that noticeable-nor are the numbers being too small and you only see lume at night right? so no probs there really for daily use....BUT THIS IS ARGUMENT SIDE 1! on the flip side you get a real omega dial, with inset/boardered date window, perfect numerals and....SUPER LUME, and believe me it is super! one side would say dont bother not worth it, the other would say defo worth it because it looks amazing! after having both, i would say-im on the fence on this one, hmmm sure i love seeing the lume, the texture of the dial looks nicer, text is clearer etc but i still sometimes question myself as to if it was worth it. a quick one next-the hands, can be a straight swap if you have an eta 2824.2 or asian copy of, but in my experiance-not worth it, surprisingly even the lume is almost the same, size the same, looks the same so save the money...and buy- a gen crown and tube! one of the most popular upgrades it eliminates all the loose crown/stripped threads on tubes issues and is quite easy to do.looks no different mind, but feels different, buttery smooth to screw down and being so cheap it really is worth doing. so far then we have a 50/50 on using a gen dial, no to using the gen hands and yes to the crown and tube...what about anything else? crystal? straps? well...the gen crystal is superb, but again at almost £200 is it a pointless expense? remember that by now if you had gone for a gen dial, hands, crown, tube and then went for a crystal too you would be upto almost £600 with vat added (£780 with initial cost of the rep watch...) still considerably less than a gen PO but still a massive cost for what is still in effect a replica...add straps at around £175 for a gen rubber not including buckle or bracelet at over £480 and then you get close to a quality used gen PO, so ummm best to not go overboard! bezel, useless-unless you can machine yourself a ring to fit between case and bezel it wont fit...you can do what myself and others have done a bond it in place-but then you loose the function of the turning bezel...£200 quid for a part that doesnt work just to remedy a pearl thats a mm too low? nah, i'll put up with the pearl personally! ofcourse these prices are new prices, you can find cheaper used parts... anyway lets look at some pics, one is a franken, the other is straight from the box except for one cheap mod...but which is which? i will reveal all below... which one has the gen parts? yes it the black bezel one...but what does it have? could you tell? it has gen dial and hands, gen crown and tube (i aligned the crown so when it does up the omega logo lines up with the case-pointless but makes me happy...) and the buckle on the strap is genuine, the orange bezel one has an aftermarket bezel, apart from that its stock from the dealer...so looking at them both was the black version worth the extra cash? in my hand, on my wrist id have to say...I still dont know! sorry for a rubbish conclusion but it really is that close as to wether or not its worth it! on one hand you get gen parts, a watch you build yourself and one that looks well over 90% genuine to anyone-and on the other you have a great looking watch anyway straight from the word go and save alot of money... so there you have it-to franken or not to franken...its still the question, and as with all things comes down to personal choice, factor in cost, overall look your after etc and go from there! now the 5th generation 42mm...well thats almost perfection without any mods...but thats for another thread! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Personally I'd go for the gen tube and bezel (on 42', definitely not on 45') and nothing more. The OOB is great and the lume isn't that bad in my opinion. I don't think a better lume justifies spending almost twice the original rep price. Great summery, bamcky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Great post Bamcky, It takes a fair whelp of cash to get an almost external full franken of a PO (either 42mm or 45mm) and I agree with you, I'm not sure if it's worth it in monetary terms to go 'full'. The prices add up very quickly, in UK prices you can find yourself approaching £1K for a complete external franken, (with a rep movement and dodgy serial no!) ...and then when you see the prices of 2nd hand good conditioned ones going for around £1400 you would grit your teeth a few times(regardless of the love of the 'build' argument)....no doubt about it! Anyway my take on it is this....(keeping aside the fact that they look great out of the box!) ...that despite the claim of 1:1 on these reps, they are not as close to gen side by side as we think, they need lume, AR and possibly bezel to get an almost true 1:1 look. Yes 99.9% of the general public won't notice anything, thats fine, and you'll hear people say 'I don't need lume' or the rep lume is fine for me etc.....but you do if you want an accurate looking PO, The lume is so prominent it is noticeable in daylight! The PO is all about lume, it shines in daylight, when you walk indoors from being outdoors in the sun, the watch dial is Glowing! So to get one close as cheap as possible is the best option. Either have the dial lumed and the crystal AR'd with a decent rep bezel/pearl and you are good to go....this is a major noticeable improvement over the out of the box lume/AR. Or be patient and buy some new, some2nd hand gen parts and try to keep the whole purchase around or under about £500. Then it is a worthwhile franken! I agree the TH 500m, smp chrono and B superocean are more accurate out of the box. Edit: Sorry Ade just seeing your post, I agree the lume isn't that bad for standard rep lume, and quite good in comparison to some other rep watches like the noob etc..... but in comparison to gen dial PO lume (probably one of the best and brightest lumed watches ever) then it is lacking...seriously lacking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamcky2k Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 cheers bud, the 45mm will always be my choice-but god your right about the new version 42mm-it really is almost spot on out of the box...the date window is correct, pearl is great, bezel colour on the orange is correct...it really is great, if only they could update the date window on the 45-but then the version before this of the 45 had the correct date window but had a happy feet logo! correct one thing then mess up another in return...as i own both the franken and non-franken i have to lean towards not bothering unless you get a great price on used parts-or go for the 42mm as it comes-but then the 45 is soooo big and sexy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 ...I agree the lume isn't that bad for standard rep lume, and quite good in comparison to some other rep watches like the noob etc..... but in comparison to gen dial PO lume (probably one of the best and brightest lumed watches ever) then it is lacking...seriously lacking. Definitely. I'm a bit on the fence on the whole lume issue (with all reps). On one hand, you're absolutely right, Cougar, the lume is not even remotely close to it's gen counterpart. It's not even in the same universe. On the other hand, I don't mind the lume on gens either. I rarely find myself looking at the watch in complete darkness and, working indoors, I rarely see other's watches glow. Personally I don't consider a poor lume a huge tell, and I've seen a great number of gen high-end watches with "tired" luminescence . In short, for me a great lume is definitely nice to have, but would I spend that much on it? I'm not sure. 9 out of ten times I'd say no. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Yeah I agree the 42mm is slightly better out of the box in terms of pearl and date window etc, but really the same thing above with lume/AR applies to both 45mm and 42mm, great reps but they all need mods to be 1:1. It's a tough call. It really needs full price breakdown before jumping in....and you also have to be sure you love the watch so much you won't flip it as you would be losing money. Keeping costs down as much as possible is the only way! There's almost a full franken for sale over on the geek now 42mm @ $1500, no disrespect to the guy and I hope he gets what he wants but if I really wanted a PO and was comparing that to the used gens on watchrecon @ around $2000 then I know which direction I'd be going in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adeodatus Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Apropos, the 45 sure looks nice on the wrist and has that much more "face" to it, but for me the 42 is more correct (the smaller size helps alot). The 42 is more like: "I am a watch!" and the 45 is more like: "What dafock are you looking at? You should look at me! me me me me me!" Anyway I like them both Edited February 27, 2012 by Adeodatus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 Definitely. I'm a bit on the fence on the whole lume issue (with all reps). On one hand, you're absolutely right, Cougar, the lume is not even remotely close to it's gen counterpart. It's not even in the same universe. On the other hand, I don't mind the lume on gens either. I rarely find myself looking at the watch in complete darkness and, working indoors, I rarely see other's watches glow. Personally I don't consider a poor lume a huge tell, and I've seen a great number of gen high-end watches with "tired" luminescence . In short, for me a great lume is definitely nice to have, but would I spend that much on it? I'm not sure. 9 out of ten times I'd say no. Yeah agree, it's funny you mention it, I'm not really a lume person here either.....the complete lack of lume on my noob sub and many of my other reps is just fine with me, perfectly happy with them. The thing that got me with the gen PO dial is just how much the lume changes the look of the watch even in daylight, it makes the dial pop! Spending loads on it is questionable but I would say I would rather do a franken PO with gen dial/hands and leave out the gen crystal (Good AR modded job is fine), and as much as it pains me the rep bezel is passable(at least on the 42mm with good pearl)...than any other combination! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamcky2k Posted February 27, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 that is the one thing i do love about the gen dial on the black one-the lume, like you said it glows even in daylight! and adds a another dimensions to the large blankness of the dial...but then a relume would add the same effect and cost alot less...but then the date window issue...ha, gotta remember to keep things in perspective though, and its right that if its a "grail" watch and you want the gen parts-do it, make yourself happy, and have something that looks amazing-if your just collecting, then buy it and wear and enjoy it as is its good enough for that. i was gonna write a similar comparison on the 42mm, one with gen dial the other with rep...but ummmmm there really isnt anything between them...apart from lume ofcourse its nigh on perfect, text is a little on the silver side but hardly noticeable or worth mentioning...would be nice if the rep 45 matched the latest 42 oob... i just hope this little write up helps someone and makes them think before as has been said "diving in head first" without thinking.i used to seriously stress about certain parts not being perfect but after spending the cash, comparing side by side and wearing each daily i have to say i wish id saved the money or sourced cheaper routes of getting the same look bamcky2k-wasteing his cash so you dont have to 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 27, 2012 Report Share Posted February 27, 2012 I just started out, but to me it gives me an excuse to tinker with the watch and movement. I also get some satisfaction from that part of it will be assembled by me. It's also flexible in that I can add something now, and another thing in 6 months if I'd like. To me, it's worth it right now because of the three things above. If I had to send it away to someone else I might maybe get a thing like the tube and crown since I had problems with mine. But I'd never pay for someone else to do a complete franken. The value in it to me is that I get to do it myself. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamcky2k Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 The value in it is always the build, come to sell it on though and youl be lucky to get a third of the cost back-despite all the effort and parts...definately franken if the watch is a keeper long term.the thing is though with the new style planet oceans coming out, the older original versions from 2006 onwards may come down in price even more on the used market...bringing them closer still to a quality franken. When you consider on some occassions you only have to maybe go 2 or 3 hundered quid more to get a used gen in the current market is a franken of this watch viable anymore? Don't get me wrong though, I have had 3 frankens and 4 oob over the years, so I'm not anti-franken! But ive spent enough money on them to have bought a gen! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lovecraft Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Well, that's where the value is for me anyway - but not for everyone. There's a lot of people on these forums that send their watches to someone else to do the complete mod. The value for them lies elsewhere. Another thing about a rep - franken or not - is that I'll wear it without being too worried. When I owned a Speedmaster a few years back I was always worried I'd scratch it or lose it. And yes, no matter if you are buying gen or rep - there's always a new update of the series around the corner. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 Some great points guys, I always worry I'm gonna knock gens, even if they are not very expensive ones...simply because parts are too damn dear to replace, with reps, while I don't want to beat the living daylights outta them either I feel much happier that it wouldn't be a huge bill if parts were needed. Also bamcky, another good thing about owning a franken PO above gen is the movement, while I'm not saying it's as good as a 2500 calibre, the faults and problems with the 2500 cal are well documented, this combined with the shoddy service from Omega service centres and plenty of stories about waiting 6 months to get a watch repaired only to get it back and have it stop again 3 months later. If the rep movement craps out at least a simple swap out is all that's needed, job done, watch back on the wrist in an hour or so! Plenty of people have been turned off Omega gens with the 2500 simply because of these problems. Now I've never had an issue with mine, and don't want to tempt fate ....not easy to find a watchmaker even to work on the coaxials! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted February 28, 2012 Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 This photo was put up sometime ago, thanks to mojako, good illustration of rep vs gen dial lume on a franken in progress, even better than some side by side lume shots of rep vs gen dial as they can be unevenly charged: What a difference a dial makes, and even the lume on the rep hands is pretty good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamcky2k Posted February 28, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2012 totally agree about hurting a gen-a mate of mine badly damaged his gen PO a while back, hes a royal marine commando and battered it while on op's...then he got faced with a 900 quid repair bill with servicing a rep replacement woulda been a fraction of the cost! now as ive said im not anit-franken atall, far from it! its just after spending so much cash, time, frustration etc to finally get one im happy with i coulda just picked up a used one...but again your right that the first generation co-ax movement did face quite a few problems...and the cheap ones you could pick up for not much more than a franken would be about 4 to 5 years old and therefore would need a service soon... its a tough call is it not?! i loved building mine too, i learnt a hell of alot from doing them, and can now happily change a dial/hands, swap a movement, change bezels, reset keyless works, change date wheels etc quite quickly and easily and all from just taking the plunge and doing the work myself-so that side of it is superb especially in this hobby! i just had to ask the question is it viable money wise and effort wise to franken the PO anymore?. just a few years back the smp chrono was all about the franken, now with prices as low as £1200 for a used gen people dont seem to bother...i just wonder if it'll be the same for the original planet ocean? a good conclusion for me after owning a full franken and numerous upo reps was this: gen crown and tube is a must, dial is worth it 100% if you have the cash-if not a relume is a great alternative, hands are'nt essential in my honest opinion, bezel doesnt fit so useless, he valve not really worth it, gen crystal is great but cheaper to get the rep one ar'd if you can-its pretty good as is though, gen rubber/leather strap and buckle is a great addition-although the rep rubber is 98% gen like so again not worth it if you dont want it. all in all i think its all about perspective, in all honesty a great looking rep can be a superb one just by adding the gen dial and nothing else...in total that would be £200 for the dial and £180 for the watch-so £380 in total for an excellant looking watch...consider then adding other parts over the months ahead maybe? pros and cons of all aspects i guess-just like everything in life! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted February 29, 2012 Report Share Posted February 29, 2012 Nice review buddy! A franken project is great when you buy gen parts cheap of great guys on the forum cheers again bud! I wouldn't have personally put gen dial hands ect in my upo if I had to pay full whack for them, like you say you can get carried away buying all the gen parts and rack up a massive bill, you'd be better off putting money away in the bank every month and buy a gen. It's deffinatly all about the lume!! It is amazing! I don't know why but it's deffinatly the best mod on the rep, if I didn't buy a gen dial I would deffinatly get a re lume on the rep dial and hands I think as the look of the dials gen vs rep are very close. Personally I love my franken upo because i built it and 6 months ago a didn't even know the first thing about movements,keyless works ect and can only thank you guys and rwg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bamcky2k Posted March 1, 2012 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 ry mate! did you PM recently about the rollie insert? i've lost the message without reading it properly.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the_rymeister Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Pm'd you again bud Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
latara785 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 Excellent info in this thread, thank you very much guys for sharing! Now I guess I must put the plans of building a franken PO back on my desk. But I think I must get the new H factory SOSF first since I cant get it out of my mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cougar1 Posted March 1, 2012 Report Share Posted March 1, 2012 ....hes a royal marine commando and battered it while on op's...then he got faced with a 900 quid repair bill with servicing a rep replacement woulda been a fraction of the cost! God damn it they know how to charge for replacement parts and labour, heard similar stories, people nearly having heart failure when they hear the repair costs of damaged bezel/crystal/case complete. I echo what you the others are saying about doing the build yourself, no disrespect to people that send the parts out for assembly by a modder, I can understand some not wanting to tackle keyless works and hand stacks and crystal pressing first time out, but there's something different about having gone through all the trials and tribulations of doing the assembly work yourself.... it's great to look down at a watch and say 'I built that'!. There's also a much greater chance of not flipping a watch on a whim if you put some blood, sweat and tears into getting it the way you want! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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