chocho Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Hello, Im a new member and have decided to finally attempt my first build which is going to be James Bond Big Crown Submariner 6538 I have begun to do my research and am tring to decide on what case to buy. I have read numerous threads here on RWG about the cases but there seems to be a difrence of opinions and well most of the threads are a year or older so I figuered Id start one up see if any one that had done a similar project recently and could way in. Let me state that my goal is to make my 6538 look as authentic as possible and am not affraid to spendthe cash with in reason if the parts are worth it of course, that being said my question is which case is the most authentic looking and has the best craftmanship for the money. The ones I have seen are the JAW ($1600) Yuki (about 500 from what I have read also read that some member had the dome fall out) and the NDtrading which I have not been able to get a price if someone knows more or less what they run and can tell me that would be great. Im not intrested so much in the bezel insert as they are all off and will prob hut for a beter aftermarket or maybee an original. If anyone wants to weigh in on any of the other parts to the project as far as which trhey have seen look more authentic that would be great or of any sights with good orig pieces at fair prices (only one ive seen is chrono-shop.net). Im thinking for the movement i might just buy a similar cheaper model rolex and pull the move and if im lucky maybee even the braclet even tho i havent seen any with the marked (7206/80) wich i believe is the one the orig 6538 came with. seen a couple watches on ebay for about $1800 if there are beter sugestion for an authentic 1030 cal please let me know, I figuer I can scrap the rest of the watch for parts to sell on ebay to recoup some of my cost. Opinoins sugestions and critisim all welcomed and apretiated. Thank you in advance for your time and input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilva Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 This is my 6538 Tropical, Also have a 4 liner 'safe queen' but havent got around to snapping a photo yet. For my cases I used Yuki's 5510 (A lot less wokky than their 6538's) and sourced a couple of gen parts on Ebay and VRM (Gen 8mm crown and tubes, tropic 17's) ETA 2824's and NDT dials. For me the dials are everything and NDT's really take them to the next level. Yuki has adapter set's which will save you money using an ETA instead of trying to buy a vintage movement on the Bay and servicing it. And Yuki's 7206 bracelet comes highly recommended. All in all its going to cost some $$$ but the end result should be a nice big crown sub with a lot less flaws than straight out modding a cartel piece. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 2, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 Thxs Dev, beautiful piece btw thxs for the input i dont mind springing for the 1030 movement tring to achieve perfection or as close as possible. I have to agree its all about the dial Ill take a look at the dials at NDT yukis look a little to new duno if maybee i can achieve a more vintage look by baking them ill reaserch that on the forum later tho. wanted to know where u sourced you bezel insert all the ones ive seen have the numbers to close to the inner rim yours looks on point =) I just baked an after market bezel insert that I have for my suby and I must say the superlum pearl came out lookin 50 years old nice and dark yellow =) and it didnt fall apart as i read in some cases it does if ya cookit to long=). Dint really think abot changing the crystal on the case is that something I should look into maybee an original ? so many questions haha thanks for the help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
devilva Posted July 2, 2012 Report Share Posted July 2, 2012 I think the T-17 is worth it if you can afford to put in a little more money. The insert is Yuki's and have to say they are much nicer than the cartel ones. The only thing is if your heart is set on sourcing a 1030 movement and you went to yuki, you would have to get the 6538 case which is really wokky. Which means you're better off with NDT or phong for the case but they are again into another price bracket. Its up to you how much you're wanting to put into it but remember even after $4000 its still going to be a rep and if someday you do need to resell, you're going to take a massive hit. Like 50%. You could probably get something like mine for about $2.5K. Less without the gen parts. If you break what you are looking at down, the movement will be something like $1-$1.5K + service, NDT/phong caseset arent they something like $1.2K. Then you've got to get a nice dial,hands,bracelet etc.... will be interesting anyway whichever direction you look to go. Goodluck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panerai153 Posted July 4, 2012 Report Share Posted July 4, 2012 I believe that you are doing the right thing to stay away from the cartel 6538's to mod. I bought one off another member a year or so ago, and tried to mod it, but the bezel, crystal construction is way off anything like the original. Most folks who went that route ended up gluing the crystal in.I finally decided to cut my losses and give up on the project. If i were you before I embarked on a high dollar project, i would do a lot of reading and research. Theree are a lot of pitfalls and dead ends when it comes to modding, and you need to try to avoid as many as possible. Contrary to a genuine Rolex sub, where all the genuiine parts fit, and you could build a watch from scratch using parts only, reps are different. Quite often things look OK, but when you try to put things together they don't fit, at least with out modifications. devilva has some really good advice about the costs. When you get into the really high priced super frankens (I would say anything from 3500-4500 USD, you better love the watch! If you decide later on to sell it, for whatever reason, you will take a big hit. Go back to the sales forum and search out some of the big price reps, DRSD's Daytonas, 6538's etc. What you will see is most of them spend a lot of time on the sales forum, either don't sell, sell at a big discount, or the owner decides to part them out.I don't know what the breakover point is, but I would say that for the vast majority of our members, anything over 1k is going to have to be really, really rare and exceptional, or something a member has been looking for for a long time to get sold quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Hello and thank you for the advice yup I agree I’m still in the process of doing my homework while I don’t mind spending $3500-4500 on this project I want to come out right and don’t want to throw my money away on some thing that wont fit together well or might fall apart. Also I ll take a look at th esale section maybee theres something good similar to what I want to creat for a decent price even tho I was heart set on putting it together my self but on the other hand I love a good bargain =) Here’s where I’m at so far: Yukis Case www.yukiwatch.com/catalog/item/6924997/7278344.htm: Great communication thus far on his part $800 for case engraved at that price could probably afford to put in an authentic Crystal and Crown. Gen Tropic 17 crystal if I can find one that is and if they run more or less like the abundant Tropic 19 would run $100-$400 if used or new and a Gen Crown from what I’ve seen is $600+ but then we get into what Panerai mentioned about moding rep case with expensive gen parts could be a trial and error disaster. Claims no water resistance on this case. Dev you claim its Wokky but I’m not sure I know what that means can you elaborate plz. So basically here I guess I’m in the $1800 range moded with gen parts. Phong (JAW) Case (http://www.jewelryandwatch.com/contents/en-us/d192_6538_Submariner_case.html ) :$1650 at this price I would expect a case that I would not have to mod and be very similar to an authentic case crystal and crown If some one has any experience with one of theses an can give their opinion as to its worth for that price I would appretiate it and also they clams to be Water Resistant. On another down note they have 1 pic of the case for a $1650 prod not very reassuring. ND Trading Case (http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=259 ) : No price quote yet after 2 emails asking for one not very reassuring pics looks good crown and crystal look superior to yukis yet again not much info found as far to actual people using this case and how much it runs and if its worth the money again if its in the $1500+ I would expect a case that I would not have to be moded much. If any one has experience with the JAW and NDT case and wants to weigh in I would really appreciate your thoughts and opinions. Here’s where I’m at with the rest of the parts as far as price and the ones that appear at least from the pics to look best. Dial NDTs $350 most expensive but best looking one imo: http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=376 Hands CWP aged look reasonable price they look pretty good in the pic $65: http://www.classicwatchparts.com/catpart/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=45&products_id=42&osCsid=dr6t3rdf82trcntr3uukrrppu2 Braclet I think NDTs looks to be superior to the rest IMO from the pics NDT $220 JAW $300 Yuki $149: http://ndtradingcorp.com/zen/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=8&products_id=340 Bezel Insert CWPs looks to be the most authentic looking IMO $120 : http://www.classicwatchparts.com/catpart/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=34_56&products_id=74&osCsid=dr6t3rdf82trcntr3uukrrppu2 Can some one explain why some authentic 6538 come with BI with the second marks and red triangle and the some like the one In the bond pics come like the one I posted with just numbers ? Well still not pulling the trigger on anything got to decide which direction to go with the case so any more info on the Phong and NDT cases or any other parts I mentioned would be great thanks for your time. Also If anyone has sites for authentic parts besides chrono shop and VRF that would be awesome thxs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Hey chocho, I will chime in a bit here to try to save you a headache or overspending. I can only comment about phong as I have no experience with ndt or yuki. I realised quickly that if I wanted to keep my spending reasonable and be assured to get a nice completed version of exactly what I wanted, that it was best to pay phong for everything. He specializes in completed watches and just sold me a 6265 that is really amazing. I think I would have spent twice as much trying to get that level of perfection on my own. He has 3 versions of the watch you want to build and listed at 4500$. I know he has a 10% off sale till the end of the month so its about 4000$ for either one. They come with gen movements and a few other gen parts like crystal crown tube and stem. Not sure if this is the route you want to take but good luck whatever you decide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Pics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Thanks for the info hadnt looked at the clearance section on Phongs must admit they look pretty dam good definatly given me something to think about I thnk If he were to throw in a 7206 band id be sold =) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Ya they do look good, I was really tempted to get the first one. I'm a sucker for a guilt dial and hands! I'm not sure if he has any bracelets but I really think that 4000$ is reasonable. The movement is serviced and he's a magician with making the whole thing seem like it had a 50 yr life, I mean seriously maybe not the insert but the watch as a whole looks old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 yup the vintage finish is pretty sweet, the BI ia easy to do I have an aftermarket BI for my 16803 and gave it a test run bathed it a couple of sec in a bath of Windex (any amonia based cleaning sol will do) and got a nice faded look on the blue insert just that I didnt know not to pull out directly cause the air causes some shiny spots gotta flush the bath with water after a couple of secs thenI baked the BI 550F for like 30 min and the pearl turned a nice yellow color all this I got from threads on rwg so thxs to the forum for the info =). Any Idea why the original bez or the one I see most often is the one with the red triangle and second markers and the one Bond has in Golfinger is the one without second markers and only numbers ? is the later incorrect for an authentic 2 lined glit 6538? I like em both im just wondering wich if not both are correct for the series ? http://www.theprodigalguide.com/2009/11/04/bond-and-rolex-the-story-of-a-tumultuous-but-long-lasting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Some of the watches in those pictures, the rehaut looks a little wokky. Take a look at this gen. I only say this because of the level of money involved. Don't get me wrong, I love Phong's stuff...but some of those pics remind me of Yuki's cases. http://www.network54...wn from 1958 !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 mmm 30K for a watch whose dial doesnyt match its year Oo Tswiss<25 started in 1960 somethings off on that watch not to mention the condition of a suposedly 54 year old watch that thing would be worth way more than 30k iof it was real imo. Whats wokky mean btw im not familar with that term? Heres a beter example of a real 6538: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 The rehaut/chapter ring etc...angles inward to the dial face...like a wok. This is the problem the Yuki cases sometimes have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 actually that might be a 5510 up there in that photo woof duno 4 on the BI is boxy as oposed to pointed aswell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 (edited) aa thxs been wondering what that meant, ya i asked for more straight shots of watch/dial most of those pics are angled and im not feeling the dial aswell for that kind of cash i expect close to perfection so ill post some beter shoots when he sends them still think NDT makes the superior dial Edited July 5, 2012 by chocho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 5, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 yup u right all 3 look wokky in comparison to th epic hes got for just the case: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc33 Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Is it the curve of the crystal that makes it look wocky.?? Wow if that's the case and it is like that don't spend that kind of money on it, not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torresp Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Building a franken 6538 or 5510 is the most difficult task in the vintage catalogue (ever harder than V72 daytos). There are no perfect case in the market, Phong sometimes is close to the real deal but the best one INMO are the casesets from Ming Q but the quality vary so need to ask them from time to time. Other aspect is the very curves lugs, never replicated properly in the cases. The most close franken I've build is this one: - Ming case - CWP bezel, insert (bleached) and hands - NDT dial (the best hands down) - gen movement - gen tropic 17 - Yuki 7206 I prefer the vintage look so made a bit of work on the case and there is the result: Good luck with your project! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Beautiful build Torresp, How much was the Ming case set? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torresp Posted July 5, 2012 Report Share Posted July 5, 2012 Thanks Woof. No idea on exact price 'cause I got it from another RWG member but use to be slightly cheaper than Phong's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perry563 Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 I bought a cartel 6538 and sent it to Pbdad. He shaved the crystal down, installed the correct size crown and tube, aged the dial, drilled the lug holes and installed the correct spring bars. I bought the correct colored Bond NATO strap. I'm very happy with it and I only paid with everything watch included....500. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) WOW Torresp im at at lost for words truely amazing I dare to say that it came out better than some gens Ive see on TRF & VRF spectacular 6538 ! I was not savy to Minh Q I found their website and emailed him to get a price Quote on his 6538 caseset heres a link for anyone that wants to weigh in http://www.chrono24....7&watchTypeId=Z ok so heres an update to where im at as far as what im looking at for case and parts. Case: The most important decision imo, so I heard back from Phong and he quoted me as follows: 1.body case and case back with crown tube for $1250.00 2.complete case $1450.00 Phong Case Pic ( I asked for more via email lets see if he sends some) at $1250 for case and back leaves me a little wiggle room for an authentic Crown and T17 crystal but heres the problem I CANT FIND ONE (crystal that is ) ! so if any one can point me in the direction of where to get one I would really appretiate it only place ive looked are : ebay chrono24, TRF, VRF no luck and imsure when I find it its gonna be hella expensive also while Iv dismatle gen rolxes before ( removed instaled dials hands bez mov ect I never done a crystal so theres the learing curve on that as well). So not sure if I should go that route or just pay Phong 1450 and keep the crystal and crown that his case brings. Ive emailed NDT twice about a quuote for his case set been over a week since 1st email still no response Dial: While I have to agree with ya that NDTs dials are the best I had seen tho woof turned me to ingods dials and i must say in the pics they look to be exactly like NDTS but for less than half the price so now I dont know I dont mind spending the $350 on NDTS but ingods are $135 and look the same as far as quality font and markings and at least from pics more vintage looking but that could just be lighting im gonna post pics of both bellow. NDT Dial $350 ingod $135 As far as hands and BI go your right on point torresp best BI is from CWP and Best Hands appear to be CWP aswell only thing torresp is how did you get the white second hand did you requets it ? on their site (the pic of their hands bellow) all 3 come in the gilt i would like the second hand white, also if I get the phong or minh case you think its worth replacing the Bez with a CWP one or just the BI and leave the Bez that comes with case? Lastly as a completly diffrent way to take this project in the For Sale section of the forum is 6538 for 2K with a Yuki case that appears to be one of the better non wokky Yukis with original 1030 mov. and gen rolex crytal tho it appears to me to be bigger than a T17 maybee its a T19 or bigger you guys can weigh in on that ( i contacted seller still no response) At that price I can replace the Bezel and Insert Dial and Hands and maybee a gen crown and still fall bellow budget So if ya guys can weigh in on that case crstal and mov that would be awesome heres the link and pic of watch: http://www.rwg.cc/to.../page__hl__6538 Appears to bea great and known seller just wasnt planing on going yuki with my case also dome gives a some what distorted view from thos pics dont know if its the angles or the crystal is that normal on an authentic crytal ? so here are the pics 6538 Yuki case wath for sale by 5th_groups Pics are off of 5th_groups thread hope its OK 5th just need some feed back to see if your watch fits my needs, watch is very nice. Thanks again to all that have given me their opinion and continue to guide me in the right direction as we all know this an expensive project if not planed out correctly well even if planed out correctly lol =) Edited July 6, 2012 by chocho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chocho Posted July 6, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 (edited) Here are some pics of the MQ case ill get back with the quote when he emails me back: Case website has more pics : http://www.chrono24....7&watchTypeId=Z Another thing I need to keep in mind is that Phongs case comes from Arizona and MQs from Vietnam im living in Central America atm so waiting for something from Vietnam could take upto a month and if i need to send back could be a shiping nightmare for me interms of time =(( Edited July 6, 2012 by chocho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woof* Posted July 6, 2012 Report Share Posted July 6, 2012 Chocho, Chrono24 is a parts seller that sells ming cases. Try going direct, this is Ming Quy's website. Ming Quy's Vintage Watch Shop http://vintagewatchesmq.com/minhquy/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=88&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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