36 replies to this topic

[RobbieG]

dluddy, on Feb 11 2009, 09:55 PM, said:

Jogging please

+1

[RobbieG]

Someone asked my about the Dewitt 1940 Special Edition Academia Chronograph. No, those gens are not Lemania based but rather a rare antique Valjioux 71 handwind movements from long ago which were aquired (just a few) then remanufactured and lavishly decorated - but they aren't Lemania. That said, the Seagull ST-19 in the rep looks fine and will do in a pinch - and they aren't fifty grand either!

Here is an example of the similar to Lemania 2310 - Valljiox 71 handwind chronograph from 1945...

[chrgod]

A great read.

Historical technical stuff like this is very interesting. It is amazing how a good technical movement can last decades and end up in a variety of watches, all over the world!

Thanks!

[RobbieG]

chrgod, on Feb 12 2009, 01:26 PM, said:

A great read.

Historical technical stuff like this is very interesting. It is amazing how a good technical movement can last decades and end up in a variety of watches, all over the world!

Thanks!

Yeah isn't it though? There are a few standouts and the 2310/20 and 175 are very high on that list if not at the top even. I just thought it would be interesting to introduce a few that are not as well known as the 7750 and 2892 in that regard.

Some people are unaware that the whole world really only started revolving around ETA in the 80's and before then there were some amazing robust movements that stood the test of time and continue to this day. I didn't go into it in the article, but the 2320 is also the base for some very complicated calendar chronographs and repeaters as well.

I don't know what it is about handwind movements and especially handwind chronograph movements, but they are just so elegant and perfect. I have a real soft spot in my heart for them. But I'm not particularly fond of the pocketwatch style handwinds adapted to wristwatches. Cool enough I suppose, but I'm more into base calibers that were made from scratch to be in wristwatches - especially the ones sized for special cases and the ones made especially thin and such - really specialty stuff as opposed to the more chameleon pocketwatch movements like the 6897's and on up. Nothing worng with them, just a personal preference.

Also of note is Vacheron has developed its first new base handwind caliber in some time - the 4400, which is interesting in that the others have been smaller twin barrel designs and this time they made a movement to fill a 38MM case instead of a 32MM case with a single barrel and 60 hours of power reserve. So cool. Handwinds are "it" n my book. Plus, where is the fun with a watch if you don't get to set it and wind it I say...

[RobbieG]

I was asked today if there were any other handwound column wheel chronos that really knocked me out. The answer is yes - just two others and they are both of German and not Swiss heritage. By contrast, they are more complex in design and both carry the tradmark of German movement making which is to jewel pretty much all parts instead of just the necessary ones so to speak.

This "overdoing it" rarely shows up in Swiss movements. In contrast to the 2310/20 and 175 which are each 17 jewel movements, both of these exceed 400 parts and are 40 and 47 jewels respectively! Also plainly obvious is that many of them are fitted with triple blued screw gold chatons (Swiss movements tend to use press fit chatons only). So without further explaination, here are my two other favorite handwound chronograph movements.

The first is the Glashutte Caliber 99 seen in the Senator Rattrapante Handwound Chronograph. Of note the second column wheel used to control the Rattrapante or split seconds function...



The second is the A. Lange & Sohne Caliber L951.1 seen in the Datograph Chronograph and as the L952.1 base for the Datograph Perpetual which adds the calendar functions. The latter has 556 parts and 45 jewels BTW! Also of note is that the bridges of the 951/2 and all Lange movements are made of untreated German silver which has a unique color to it when new and eventually ages into a deep gold patina over time. And note the balance [censored] which is completely engraved by hand with each movement having a one of a kind design to the engraving...

[Viennawatch]

Great information!

[turboGUATE]

I vote for Robbie to be RWG watch historian. It is an excellent source of info regarding the true value of watches (being them reps or gens). If we are really into this hobbie is this little details and scrutiny of what lies beneath that makes the pulse rush (both in the heart and in the watch). I really value your perception of timepieces.

Thanks and cheers!

[RobbieG]

turboGUATE, on Feb 13 2009, 06:24 PM, said:

I vote for Robbie to be RWG watch historian. It is an excellent source of info regarding the true value of watches (being them reps or gens). If we are really into this hobbie is this little details and scrutiny of what lies beneath that makes the pulse rush (both in the heart and in the watch). I really value your perception of timepieces.

Thanks and cheers!

Thanks turbo - and I'll gladly accept the historian post. I just love the historical significance of our hobby in many respects. Some items and ideas are just so rich and it is great to see form following function and then function following form and back again. There are not many things on this earth that are perfect, but mechanical watch movements are one of them. There is no better moustrap. Every one is just a mainspring for power and an escapement ticking time. Everything else is just this wonderful art and archecture expressing individuality and personality. Just f'n awesome, huh? I am truly passionate and it nice for that to be noticed by such esteemed members. Cheers back to ya!

[Paneraibob]

Does anybody know where i could get a stm for the Seagull ST-19

Would be great to get any information

Cheers

[RobbieG]

I should think your fav dealer might hook you up by sending you a complete parts movement on your next order even? They are dirt cheap and plentiful.

[thewatchmanpr]

Wow !!!!!!

Wow !!!!!!

Wow !!!!!!

Wow !!!!!!

[RobbieG]

One last quick note for consideration guys -regarding Lemania. As I mentioned in the article, the Nouvelle Lemania is actually the in house movement arm of Breguet which is also used by Omega being that they are part of Swatch. So the Lemania factory falls under the same Swatch directive of only supplying complete movements to the outside world and such will cease supply of ebauche 2320's and variants to other manufactories outside the group.

Patek claims to only be tooled up to make a maximum of 250 5070's in a calendar year and as of a few years ago claimed to have sizeable stocks of ebauches. I have no data on Vacheron's ebauche status for the 2320's, but I have to assume they must be doing OK as they just discontinued the Malte Chronograph and replaced it with brand new Patrimony Traditionelle Chronograph at SIHH this year. So as I said, I assume they must have something worked out and/or are well stocked, given that they didn't introduce a different movement for the latest column wheel chronograph handwind timepiece.

If anyone has additional information on the state of Lemania ebauches as it relates to some of these brands, please contribute what you know. It is hard to believe that these classic movements will be disappearing one day soon (or soon enough / eventually as it were) from all but Breguet timepieces...

[Toadtorrent]

Great post Robbie...hope you're on the mend. Hope to see you back in action!!

[RobbieG]

I had forgotten I did this. There are a few additions regarding these movements I'll add soon and I may try to do a whole post on Saxon/Dresden column wheel chronos as well if I can collect enough histroic research. Everytiem I start spending more time here I start thinking "projects". lol...

[louky]

I found this very interesting!

[MNK]

this info has been great help, i have one question if anyone can help me. i am picking up a 809 case with slide rule soon and i have a dial ready to go. now i aslo have a ST-19 out of a rep daytona and was hoping to use this as temporary until i can afford a gen movement. does anyone know if the movement thicknesses are the same as it would effect the crown stem hight. thanks in advance