Pix Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Hi Folks, it's now been about 10 days I have been wearing my latest toy : a rep of the Philippe PATEK Nautilus. That one has one particularity, it is an "official" replica of an other replica : the now well known MBK replicas (also known as MBW), which come from Thailand, country of one of our well-known collector . A funny concept, especially when you consider that we have been discussing about "genuine MBKs" these days So... I would first like to explain why I chose the Nautilus : of course, the various excellent reviews and pictures done by this member's forum are the main reason ! The design also : for me this watch belongs to the same family as the Audemars Piguet Royal Oak, and the Vacheron Constantin Overseas to some extent. Classy, dressy watches, which still have a human size and that anyone, including small wrists (like mine) can wear. But what definitely made me fall in love with the Nautilus was its fading blue dial : I am not the one saying "buy this" or "buy that", but I would strongly advise that those pulling the trigger go to the blue one. It's just...sexy ! I'll start with a few shots. Family shot And the wristshot The Dealer As for all my latest purchases since 2 monthes, I bought this watch from Mark on iOffer. I have been satisfied with his reactivity, responsiveness, true communication and help in hunting models I have been requesting, even if these were not listed. Also he always has some symbolic (or less symbolic ) gesture with a discount when requested. And how surprised I was when, after some negociation, I got it offered for 280 dollars shipped, against 348 from our other dealers. Ordered on sunday, it arrived on friday. I know that's not always an issue for true collectors (those who buy, not those who sell ), but I'm always glad to get my toy quickly when I pulled the trigger. I know, that's childish... How is is as a watch ? That's where all owners of the MBK version are probaly waiting me. Well, I think some of you already followed my topic about the movement : although it beats at 28.8 kpbph, looks and feels like a Swiss ETA, there's one point which lets me perplex and doubting about what is exactly beating in this watch : the movement will wind in only one direction on my watchwinder (understand "the rotor winds the movement in only one direction"), whereas we all know that a Swiss ETA winds in both. I still have not found a satisfying answer because : - I'm not sure it' one of the already known Asian movements, as I don't know any of this type beating 28.8 kbph. Also, from the few I could see of the movement, it looks like an ETA. - maybe it's just a defective genuine Swiss ETA, but as it keeps great time and behaves without noticeable flaw when setting the date/time, it's difficult to say. The power reserve is long too. - also, I'm not sure it's one of these Asian ETA real clones or the Swiss Sellita SW-200, as according to the members owning these, they also wind in both directions. Worst of the worst, this movement cannot be extracted of the case, as the caseback is not removable : it seems that the only way to check it "de visu" is to remove the hands and the dial and then find a way to access the stem release button. As PZ mentionned it : the Nautilus is the perfect model to organize a scam, as most won't notice that the movement is not an ETA. A true (unpleasant) enigma. I'm pretty sure that's not a scam of my dealer : I have had too many good experiences with him to suddendly discover he would not be trustable. For the time being, I can only see the trouble/scam? coming from the manufacturer. But let's pass on this, I'll bring you a final answer the day this problem is definitely solved. The core of this review would consist in comparing this watch to the MBK version, for which I only read praises about the way it is (well) finished. My problem is that I have never touched nor seen the MBK, so I can't really make an objective comparison. What I can notice are the flaws/qualities I see on my actual modell. The look & feel are very good. The bracelet is particularly comfortable and the double deployant clasp is something I really enjoy in wearing a watch. The dial is close to perfect (I can't say perfect, as nothing's perfect in the rep wolrd ). The fading blue is something you have to see "live", with your eyes. The pictures don't do it justice at all (sorry for that). The crystal is obviously sapphire, it has no AR coating, but it seems the gen (originally designed in the late 70s) doesn't have AR as well. And frankly, I don't think it's necessary here. As you know, this is the Jumbo modell, which has a "modern" size of 42 mm. In this range of watches, the problem for bigger wrists is often that the dial is too small (36 mm for the AP Royal Oak for instance). Here it's a really good balance. The 42 mm are from "ear" to "ear". That means that the watch looks actually a bit smaller than the VC Overseas, for those who know it. But... and there are many things which make me think and say that the Chinese rep of the Nautilus has missed its goal. - I won't come back on that topic, but the movement origin is the first serious issue - the bracelet is difficult to adjust (not the same nightmare as the Overseas however), as the screws are of very poor quality. They are way to soft, and therefore difficult to avoid bending/breaking some of them. I feel that's a real shame for a watch of this price - I'm maybe a bit "anal" on that, but you'll see on the deployant that the inside of the clasp is not polished. Looks bad indeed. The answer of the manufacturer was that their machine does not enable this (I'll pass you the rest of their comments ) I can't believe this. My VC Overseas which costs less has a much better (and polished) deployant. And if they can't polish it, I think they could at least plate it ! Besides, but this surely only affects my watch, the inside of the security cap has been very roughly adjusted : you can see a difference in the matter itself. Just looks like they used a (nail!) file at the last minute. That's lame too. I know these things happen (I can fix it easily), but I expected a bit more for the price. Now a small look into details to illustrate the flaws. I'll let you judge if this is "normal". And how is it as a rep ? From this point of view, I personnally think it's very good. There have been discussions about dots or no dots on the dial, squares or not, seconds hands or not. Well, I have seen this exact model in several places on internet, and I am sure that the dial, the hands, and the design itself are very very close to the original. I believe that the differences noticed, as for the AP Royal Oak, come from the different variations in models over the years. The closest model is probably the Patek 5711, at least for the dial. But the thing which is more annoying in my opinion, is that I still have not found if the watch should have a display or closed caseback. In our case, a closed case back is of course preferable, as the ETA movement would be an immediate tell. I must say that it would have helped me deciding if I have an ETA or not... My conclusion There's no doubt the Nautilus is a really gorgeous watch. Those loving the VC Overseas or the AP Royal Oak will surely agree. Of course, tastes are nothing but subjective, and I could understand some won't like the design, especially the "ears"... Is it worth investing ? For 348 dollars shipped, my answer is NO. For 280... also NO ! I think this rep would be worth 200 dollars max, which is what I paid for my AP, and that brings me actually more satisfaction as far as the "return on investment" is concerned. Of course, once you have it, you'll enjoy wearing it. It's still a damn nice thing on the wrist. That's why I'll keep it. Again, despite the fact I haven't seen one, I strongly advise those who love the Nautilus and don't want to take too much risk, to invest in the MBK modell which is something like 200-240 GBP. This may sound overpriced (I would not do the step for "political" reasons). But the "Chinese MBK" is way overpriced too... For different reasons. Thailand 2 points, China 1 point... Let's finish on the bright side. Two other shots... and the links to the reviews/main posts on the MBK Nautilus, where you'll learn a lot about the gen as well Emuozz' review Eunomian's pictorial VK's pictorial Ubi's review BTW, this is my 1000th post... 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FasTTaP Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 congrats on your 1000th post, and thanks for this review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thanks for this review Pix. (And congrats for your thousand "interrestin" post too). I'm very curious of how I will like my Nautilus when it arrives from Thailand. All the pics I've seen, including your rep of the rep, are great. But I start to think like you: 450$ for an Eta based rep with no genuine parts seems a lot of money. Specialy when I'm not even sure I will like it and keep it... I got rid of my AP RO MBK Jumbo already and I think the VCO might be the next one. Maybe we could have a nice review of your Nautilus and mine in the future? Let's think about that and how to do it... Cheers and thanks again for the information. Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 great review as always...lovely photos...thank you.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Maybe we could have a nice review of your Nautilus and mine in the future? Let's think about that and how to do it... Excellent idea Stephane..! I'm sure we'll find an easy way. Well, I hope you'll like your MBK...but I'm indeed wondering about this style fitting with your expectations... As it's the same "family" as the AP or the VCO... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UB7 Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Great review! If you dont mind me asking, how much did you pay for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 280 shipped EMS... Which was supposed to be a bargain Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadog13 Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I think that King has advertised this one on the site with swiss eta and asian movement...so there are two versions of this one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piratedzeus Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Trevor wanted 310$ for this watch. Too much for me too! I like the watch... but 310$ - WTF? For a asian 21j watch maybe!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I think that King has advertised this one on the site with swiss eta and asian movement...so there are two versions of this one... Yes. I'd be curious to know if the Asian movement is yellow too. Could be this one...except that I'm a bit curious about the beatrate. How much for King's Asian version ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Excellent idea Stephane..! I'm sure we'll find an easy way. Well, I hope you'll like your MBK...but I'm indeed wondering about this style fitting with your expectations... As it's the same "family" as the AP or the VCO... I could simply send it to you in fact. Your skills in pictures and reviews are excellent And, should you come to the conclusion it is the same, then I might ask yours so I can give my opinion too I understand it is the same designer as the VCO and AP RO but it's a totaly different one to my opinion. Like the Ingy in example, not the same watch at all either. I mean, if you do stats on what watch you really wear, you come to a conclusion that some of them never gets wristime. It' is/was the case for the VCO and the AP RO but it might not be the case with the "magic blue dial", who knows Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desuetude Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Stephane, I sincerely doubt that you'll be anything less than thrilled with your MBK Nauty! Pix, thanks for the review...makes me that much more glad I went with the MBK. Couldn't be happier; it truly is a stellar rep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rek001 Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thank you for such a good review, Pix! Very thoughtful and good critical thinking. I agree, for the price it should have been much better finished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Thx all St Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
namjah Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Beautiful watch. Thanks for the review Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeff g Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 A very comprehensive review Pix. And of course nice photos too. One point... the 5711 gen does have a sapphire caseback. The original Jumbos 3700 and 3800 series did not. So the rep is more similar to those models. Another basic diffrence is that the original jumbos had no center seconds hand. One could custom order a center seconds in the jumbo, but the 3800/1A had seconds hand, but were smaller case dimension at 38mm instead of 42mm. The new 5711 is actually 43mm. Your photos are interesting to me, because for the first time seeing the CN model, the watch for all intents and purposes LOOK the same as the MBK. Quality and finish may be suspect compared to the MBK, but the CN seems to look pretty good. I paid 400.00(+) for my MBK Nautilus, and 280.00 for a CN seems like a pretty good deal, I'd say. Since receiving my MBKN, I have quit wearing all other watches. For some of us it has become the literal 'daily beater'. Thanks for the great review. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pix Posted October 21, 2007 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 So that one is a kind of 3700 that has been custom ordered ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emuozz Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 (edited) I agree with jeff for the price it’s very good rep. The mbk it’s an expensive rep and I bought the mbk because I just couldn’t resist any more. I don’t regret it, the quality of the MBK it’s great, especially the fit and finish. I would say that it’s the best rep that I own, and my current daily beater. And also I adjusted the bracelet and with not problems. I would add than the 5711 has a different shape than the older jumbos and the reps Anyway the cn rep appears to be overall a good rep. Thank you for you review I was expecting one for that rep Edited October 21, 2007 by emuozz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Guys, I'm a little confused and really need your help. If we do remove the central second hand, this Pix version or the MBK one, will be exactly like the gen , or do I miss something here ? Cheers Stephane Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emuozz Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Guys, I'm a little confused and really need your help. If we do remove the central second hand, this Pix version or the MBK one, will be exactly like the gen , or do I miss something here ? Cheers Stephane None, both had the date window incorrectly placed and if some had saw the gen one will notice this, I must say that that it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfreeman420 Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 I hear you can buy one of these with an asian ETA clone. If the price is less than $150 that would be the clncher for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 the 0.0000000000000000001% population and it can be found here at rwc Any way since the cn version it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordRasta Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Guys, I'm a little confused and really need your help. If we do remove the central second hand, this Pix version or the MBK one, will be exactly like the gen , or do I miss something here ? Cheers Stephane That my friend is the million dollar question. Technically it shouldn't have the seconds hand, BUT a gen jumbo in the 70's could be orderd with the seconds hand. I guess that PP felt for that kind of money you could get a custom watch. I plan to have mines removed at some point to make it closer to the 3700. Plus I feel it gives it a "cleaner" look. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephane Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Well, as Pix said: we are proud owners of custom Patek Nautilus Imagine the face of the AD salesman, aware of these custom Nautilus of course, if one of us enter their shop to have a replacement battery for our kid's quartz watch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FasTTaP Posted October 21, 2007 Report Share Posted October 21, 2007 Well, as Pix said: we are proud owners of custom Patek Nautilus Imagine the face of the AD salesman, aware of these custom Nautilus of course, if one of us enter their shop to have a replacement battery for our kid's quartz watch... Entering an PP AD to have some quartz watch battery replaced... Now who is going to have the guts to do this ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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